‘Tell Me Lies’ Creator Breaks Down Season 3 Finale’s Shocking Twists, Unpacks Lucy And Stephen’s Final Scene, And Answers Burning 2009 to 2015 Questions

After three seasons, 26 episodes, and an outrageous number of twists, Hulu’s hit drama Tell Me Lies — based on Carola Lovering’s bestselling novel — wrapped its incredibly successful run.

Season 3, Episode 8, “Are You Happy Now, That I’m on My Knees?” showed Lucy’s (Grace Van Patten) life falling apart over a shocking sophomore year scandal, while the friend group faced tough truths and consequences in both 2009 and 2015 timelines. In true Tell Me Lies fashion, the series went out with several bangs and ended on a lighthearted note that holds great significance.

“I’ve always said that the tone of the show, when it’s at its best, is as if there is an evil God watching our characters make these decisions and just laughing hysterically,” creator, showrunner, and writer Meaghan Oppenheimer told DECIDER over Zoom. “And it felt like that. It felt like in an evil God was laughing at [Lucy’s] ridiculous decision. It was important to me.”

In celebration of the series finale, Oppenheimer went deep with DECIDER about her decision to end the show earlier than fans hoped, her thoughts on a spin-off, that stomach-churning Oliver and Marianne twist, the decision to have Bree release the tape, Stephen’s big wedding speech, and the episode’s most memorable moments.

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When we spoke ahead of Season 3, you said that Wrigley and Bree were always a possibility. In watching these episodes, a lot of fans have pointed out the scene where Wrigley lifts Bree up at her engagement party and tells Evan, “I’m stealing your wife!” Was that some 3-D chess, Taylor Swift-level Easter egg laying? Or did you not know for sure back then? 

No, it’s funny, because Spencer improvised that line. We had talked about this being a part of a possible path, so he improvised that line intentionally.

Oh I’m obsessed with that.

Yeah, he’s a maniac. He’s the best.

I’ll start with Wrigley, then. So many things about this series and this finale are painful, and toxic, and stomach-churning. But Wrigley’s character evolution really helped restore my faith in humanity. I love him so much. And I feel like he easily could have become a worse version of himself after his brother died. So why did you choose to give him such an honorable arc and have him be the one to finally stand up against Stephen?

I love Wrigley, too. We were like crying in the edit bay, when we cut to him after the the Yale phone call. So it was a couple things: I really felt like if we were going to turn Evan bad, it made sense to turn Wrigley good. I didn’t want to be making some statement that all guys are bad, because I don’t think that’s true at all. And I wanted to see a guy stand up to another guy. I also think that Wrigley has always had a really good heart. He’s never had a mean streak. He’s never even had a particularly selfish streak. So it would have felt inorganic for him to go bad. But also, Spencer gave an interview after Season 2 where he said that he wished he had more of an upward trajectory at times, because he’s had so many downward spirals. And I was like, “Fair enough!” So I took it as a challenge to give him one.

Photo: Hulu

Thank you, Spencer!!! Out of all the outrageous events that transpire in this finale, I will never get over the sheer mind-fuck of the Marianne, Oliver, Amanda twist. On top of the fact that they defend a predatory professor, they destroy Bree’s relationship with her mom?! Where did that sickening idea come from?

The twist came from the idea that we knew we needed to get Bree to a certain place by that point in the finale. We knew that we needed her to feel like she was really stranded on an island with all of her other possibilities for stability and family ruptured underneath her in order to send her back to Evan and make this decision to bottle all of it up and be with this man who feels safe.

How does Marianne have such a drastic switch following her emotional 306 scene with Bree? 

I think that Marianne lives every day as a very deeply conflicted person with two truths going on at once. One is that she does know better. She does know that what her husband is doing is wrong, and she does have a conscience about it, and hates it to some degree. But the other truth is that she loves her husband more than she loves herself, more than she loves her own dignity, more than she even loves her own happiness. It’s really of a cautionary tale of what can happen if you end up in a in a marriage like that. So I think that her scene with Bree was genuine, but then she is out of Bree’s presence and starts thinking about it, and ultimately decides she can’t lose her husband. 

Photo: Hulu

You and I have bonded over our shared belief that Lucy gets way too much hate. She’s getting it from all angles this season — not just viewers, but also people close to her like Pippa. The scene they share in the finale where Lucy tries to comfort Pippa about cheating and Pippa winds up judging Lucy for sleeping with Evan killed me. I have so much grace for Pippa, because she’s been through something awful. At the same time, she’s very vocal about no one standing up to Stephen while not sharing her truth about Chris. So why do you think she’s so unforgiving of Lucy in that moment?

It’s funny, everyone has very different opinions about Pippa. It’s been really interesting to see the response, even the conversations in the writers’ room and conversations with Sonia. She is calling out people for not standing up to Stephen, but it’s little bit different because I don’t think she’s expecting Stephen’s victims to come out against him. She’s mostly upset that his friends, the supposedly good guys around him, don’t do anything. And when it comes to the cheating, I know. People are flawed and people can excuse things within themselves and then not in another person. I think that she has that that explosion towards Lucy because it’s the final straw for her. She’s wanted to scream at Lucy about a lot of things, and then finally she has something that she’s allowed to explode about. And I think because the cheating is happening to Bree, who she sees as so innocent, it heightens it for her.

Speaking of Bree, she starts the series as one of Tell Me Lies‘ most innocent players and the show really breaks her down so hard that she reaches this ethical rock bottom in the finale. Walk me through the decision to have her be the one to release the tape. Was it always the plan for her character to go on this downward spiral, to the point where she thinks of herself as “the worst person”? 

It was always the plan to have her be the one, yeah. I always knew there was going to be the worst thing that Stephen ever did, and that was going to be the lure of the group. But before I started the writers’ room for Season 3, I thought, “What if we fooled the audience? And this thing that we build up isn’t the worst thing that Stephen ever did to her? Actually, Bree did.” But I don’t think Bree is the worst person, or an evil person, actually. The fact that she thinks that of herself means she’s actually a good person, because really bad people don’t think that they’re really bad. She does it when she’s at such rock bottom. It’s another reason why we needed that scene with Oliver, and Marianne, and her mom, because we needed to get her to that place where she’s not acting as herself. She’s acting from a completely fragmented, betrayed place. And also she doesn’t know the confession tape is a lie. She thinks that it’s a full truth. She takes it at face value. She’s like, “Oh my god, Lucy slept with Evan and she lied about rape.” And as soon as she realizes the full picture, she immediately has incredible remorse. That’s why she never calls Lucy out on sleeping with Evan. She forgives her right then in there. She’s been punished enough. So it’s dark, but I ultimately forgive Bree. 

Photo: Hulu

It was incredibly hard to watch Lucy get expelled over this. Grace Van Patten gives such powerhouse performances all season, but Lucy in the Dean’s office broke me. Did you ever consider a version in which Pippa or someone went to the Dean on her behalf?

I never thought that Pippa should have to share her truth, because I think ultimately, even though Lucy does do this thing to protect her and it does come from a place of good intentions, and I forgive Lucy for it completely, it still was a choice that was made without Pippa’s input or blessing. At the end of the day, Pippa doesn’t owe it to anyone to share what happened to her. I think it’s really important that we not force victims of any kind of abuse, especially sexual abuse, to out their own trauma if they’re not ready. I think we can put a lot of pressure on people to say, “You need to out this guy, because otherwise it’ll happen to another girl.” And while I understand that, it’s really not fair to place that burden on these people, where they have to re-traumatize themselves and expose their worst secret things if they want to keep them private.

After the 2009 trauma, we finally see how things unfold in 2015 and Stephen puts everything together. Grace told me her favorite performance from Jackson this season was the reception speech, because he got to tap into Stephen’s humor and charm. What was it like watching that scene come to life on the day? 

Oh my god, it was so funny. We had so much anticipation going into that. It was such a big set piece. We rehearsed it like a dance with our director, Tyne Rafaeli, and we had a lot of nerves, because there were only three cakes. There were only three wedding dresses. And we knew we couldn’t fuck it up. We were like, “We really only get three chances at this.” But it all just went so well — almost shockingly well. One of our writers who was on set, Liz Elverenli, kept turning me like, “I can’t believe how well this is going!” And it was fun writing that monologue for Jackson, because at this point, I know all the actors so well. I know their cadences. So I was able to hear his voice while I was writing it. I think he really excels at those kind of moments, where he can just be a funny, dry asshole.

Photo: Hulu

Despite the asshole of it all, and their history, and fields of red flags, Lucy does leave the wedding with Stephen, and he does leave her at a gas station. I laughed out loud with her. What drove them to make those choices? And though we saw Stephen get kicked out of Yale, for fans who were hoping he’d face greater consequences, why was it so important for you to end the series on a lighter note? 

I’m glad that you thought it was a lighter note. I certainly think it was funny. I’ve always said that the tone of the show, when it’s at its best, it’s as if there is an evil God watching our characters make these decisions and just laughing hysterically. And it felt like that. It felt like in an evil God was laughing at her ridiculous decision. It was important to me. There were a couple of things I didn’t want. First was an insincere story where the bad guys totally lose, and the good guys win, and Stephen gets all of his consequences. It just didn’t feel realistic to me. And it also just didn’t feel like the show that we’ve been making for three seasons. At the same time, I felt like Stephen needed to choose to leave her in order for her to ever actually be free. If she had rejected him in that moment, he would have come back around in five years. He would have tried again, because he needed to win. And so her making that choice to give him another chance, and giving him the opportunity to reject her once and for all, and her choosing him over her friends, it actually frees her forever. Now that he’s won, he’s never going to go back, he’s going to move on to his next victim. And I think having that laughter was so important, because I didn’t want it to be bleak. I wanted the audience to know she’s going to be OK. It’s like a checkmate. She’s like, I see. I see. And I think also the implosion of this friend group was necessary for all of them to grow and heal and become the adults that they’re going to become. 

Music has been such an integral part of the show. I’m a Ben Gibbard girlie. So I was so excited to hear “Such Great Heights” again, closing out the series. Why did you choose to go out on that song? And tell me about landing the Chvrches cover.

I think that a big part of the musical DNA of our show that I found in Season 2 was really these escalated callbacks. You find a song that you used early on, and you revisit it in a new form, which was why I ended the premiere episode with “Addicted to Love” again, which I ended the first episode ever of Season 1 with. With “Such Great Heights,” in Season 1, you have that song playing as they’re both wearing trash bags. That scene always represented these two to me. It solidified their toxic relationship where they’re kind of just this island of trash when they’re together. So it felt very appropriate to end on that song again for the end of their story together. But this time, Lucy is alone on an island. She’s isolated — not with him, but by herself. And I’m such a big fan of Chvrches, and my writer/producer, Liz, is friends with the band. So I was like, “Do you think they would do a cover?” And she helped navigate that. It was so much fun meeting with them and talking. And I love doing the music on the show.

Photo: Hulu

There’s a satisfying sense of closure in the 2015 timeline for sure, but because this is the final season, I imagine fans will have a list of burning questions about events from 2009 to 2015. Did you always want those gap years to remain a mystery?

It’s funny, because for me, those gap years were always going to be a mystery. It was always going to be those two timelines that showed up until Lucy’s worst downfall in college, and whatever [her and Stephen’s] last breakup was. And then the wedding timeline. And there was always going to be a little bit of a mystery in between, because I think the most elegant storytelling always leaves a little bit to the imagination. I think some of it is a little bit self-explanatory.

Two of my big 2015 questions were how do Stephen and Lydia get together after college? And Lucy and Max?

I think just from what we’ve seen of Stephen and Lydia, it can be understood that they got together basically out of this joint hatred of Lucy. Stephen resented her. I think he probably thought that she was the one who got him kicked out of Yale all of these years. And he always felt like he’d never beaten her. And Lydia hates her for all the Chris stuff. So they come together out of that mutual kind of disdain. And Lucy and Max — I think she gets back with him because he’s a safe, reliable, kind person. 

Can you give any more insight into Lucy’s healing journey after she’s expelled?

I think Lucy goes to therapy, and ends up — after a year, or however many months — going into another not-as-good school. She gives up on the writing and goes into sales, which we talk about in Season 2. But I think that she’s been holding on to all of this shame for so long about all of it, and now, after the wedding, she’s released from that. I think she can actually go on to be a writer now, because she’s going to be a free person in a way that she’s never been before.

You told me back in Season 1 that you saw this as a three-season arc and would rather have a show end when it’s good than drag it out too long. Did you ever consider returning for Season 4 or were you tempted to keep exploring the world and these characters?

Of course. The audience reaction has been so incredible that there were definitely conversations about if there was another way to organically continue the story. But we kept coming back to the same thing — that anything we do after this will begin to either feel repetitive or like a different show, because it was always that framing device of the wedding. And after the wedding, the characters don’t live in the same city. Why would these people ever interact again? And we also can’t go back to college, because Lucy’s not there. And it’s anticlimactic, because we know where they end up after the wedding. So we had a lot of conversations. Ultimately, for me, it was really important to to go out on a high note. I respect the fans so much that the worst thing I could have done was give them a fourth season that didn’t feel as good, or felt redundant, or felt like we’d overstayed are welcome, because I see that happen with a lot of shows. 

Photo: (Disney/Ian Watson

With the success of the series — especially Season 3 — I imagine it was an incredibly difficult choice. We talked about The Summer I Turned Pretty movie last time we chatted, and movies/sequels/reboots/spin-offs are all the rage right now. Is the door completely closed on Tell Me Lies, or would you consider revisiting the world in some capacity down the line?

In terms of reboots or spin-offs, yeah, of course. The door is definitely open for all of that. I think that this world of toxic relationships, there are so many different manifestations of that, especially in this age group. I think it’s such a timeless topic with a million different versions of stories that you could tell. Or maybe years from now a much older adult spin-off if there’s room. Never say never about any of it. But I think now I’m really excited to tell new stories.

Maybe another wedding, and it’s Bree and Wrigley. Stephen and Evan crash. [Laughs] While we wait to see what’s next, we can see a mini Tell Me Lies reunion on your husband Tom Ellis’ new show, CIA, starring Natalee Linez. I saw that casting and was like “Meaghan’s power.”

I know! That’s so funny. I didn’t know actually. It was totally just serendipity. But it’s great. And Natalee is going to come over and watch the finale at my house. They love CIA. Tom loves working with her. And I hope she loves working with Tom. I don’t know. [Laughs] I think she did! 

I’m not sure if you’ve seen, but Harper’s BAZAAR recently ranked the 15 Most Toxic TV Boyfriends. I could critique the list for hours, but I wanted to flag that Stephen ranked #1 and literal serial killer Joe Goldberg of You ranked #2. How does it feel to have crafted a man so unlikable that people would choose to date the murderer?

I think that’s crazy. I think that’s crazy. I don’t agree. I think that a serial killer is worse, but maybe it’s because, weirdly, I feel like from what I’ve seen of You, Joe has actual moments of remorse unlike Stephen? But I don’t know, that’s wild.

Since this is now officially the Tell Me Lies series finale, how does feel to look back at this journey? And aside from being incredibly entertaining, what do you hope is the show’s legacy or a big takeaway for viewers?

Man, I mean, it’s been incredible. You never know how someone’s going to respond to something. And I was really excited that I feel like the show found itself in Season 2, and continued to find itself, and became more of its own unique, weird thing. The audience really responded to the version of the show that I love the best, if that makes sense, which made me very happy. The weirder and darker it got, it seemed like the audience loved it more. And it’s legacy? I hope that people respect the fact that we landed an intentional ending. Whether or not people agree with the ending — and I think I think some people will and some won’t — I think the most important thing was to give them an ending that felt complete. But the big thing for me is these relationships. Get out as soon as they realize [it’s wrong]. Any more time is wasted time. I think we spend a lot of time going back to bad relationships, because we feel like we’ve already invested so much time in it and should fix it, otherwise it’s such a loss. It’s already a loss. Just get out now. It’s like the saying about poker: Whoever folds first comes in second. 

This interview was edited for length and clarity.

Tell Me Lies Season 3 is now streaming on Hulu.